This is Why You Should Use Tables for Forms Layout

This is Why You Should Use Tables for Forms Layout - Follow Up

A few weeks ago I wrote a post on how I thought it was entirely possible to use tables for form layout without contravening the NZ Web Guidelines. I thought I'd take Rebecca's advice and contact some experts to find out more.

Well, I ended up contacting the CEO of W3A, Bruce Aylward. We exchanged a few good emails about how to layout forms using CSS (using fieldsets seems to be the favourite approach out there). In the end, however, it was clear that for complex form layouts CSS might be possible but just wasn't going to be practical in some cases.

I ultimately asked Bruce whether it was possible to be compliant and still use tables for form layout. Bruce conceded (I sensed begrudgingly!) that,

...using tables for complex forms would be compliant. Using tables to layout simple forms such as login pages would not be compliant.

So there you have it. I still haven't been given a particularly good reason for not using tables in all cases but at least I have a better understanding of what's expected from the companies that audit sites.

I still need to find out more about how screen readers work. In particular the impact of having to switch between forms mode and tables mode. Stay tuned and I'll let you know if I find out more.

Saturday, November 03, 2007 1:50 PM

Your Comments.

# re: This is Why You Should Use Tables for Forms Layout - Follow Up

Hi Andrew,

I think you are quoting me out of context and have not including a sufficient summary of our email exchange to warrant your statement that you weren't given a particularly good reason not to use tables in all cases.

The letter of the NZ Web Standard allows you to use tables in cases where no other options are available. Thus my statement that you quoted.

However, I believe that I have given you sufficient alternatives to use instead of tables, even in the case of very complex forms.

The question you have to answer for yourself is why you are doing this. Are you working towards making your sites more accessible to people with disabilities or only trying to achieve compliance with the NZ Web Guidelines?

Kind regards,
Bruce

Left by Bruce Aylward at 11/11/2007 7:58 PM

# re: This is Why You Should Use Tables for Forms Layout - Follow Up

Thanks responding Bruce - it certainly wasn't my intention to misrepresent our communications.

In answer to your final question, I am trying to fully satisfy three factors - high accessibility (because it's important), NZ Web Guideline compliance (because projects we are engaged in are measured against this) AND minimising the impact of the method of implementation (because we have to remain competitive).

I have always said it is entirely possible to use a CSS approach for even the most complex form. The emails you sent were valid approaches and would have worked. What I haven't been convinced of yet is that these approaches are simpler to implement, maintain and understand.

If I can find a way of implementing forms in a simpler way (and I believe properly constructed table based forms are) and still satisfy my three factors I'm a happy man.

As I stated in my original post the letter of the guidelines says, Do not use tables for layout unless the table makes sense when linearised. (Section 11.3). This is entirely possible with table based forms and my questions related to determining whether I was misinterpreting the guidelines.

Anyway - thanks for joining in on the debate Bruce.

Left by Tokes at 11/11/2007 9:19 PM

Your Reply.

Comment Form.

Fields denoted with a "*" are required.

*Your name:

*Subject:

You may also like to leave your email or website.

*Your message:

Please add 2 and 3 and type the answer here:

Enter the code shown above:

Preview Your Comment.

# re: This is Why You Should Use Tables for Forms Layout - Follow Up
Hi Andrew,

I think you are quoting me out of context and have not including a sufficient summary of our email exchange to warrant your statement that you weren't given a particularly good reason not to use tables in all cases.

The letter of the NZ Web Standard allows you to use tables in cases where no other options are available. Thus my statement that you quoted.

However, I believe that I have given you sufficient alternatives to use instead of tables, even in the case of very complex forms.

The question you have to answer for yourself is why you are doing this. Are you working towards making your sites more accessible to people with disabilities or only trying to achieve compliance with the NZ Web Guidelines?

Kind regards,
Bruce

Left by Bruce Aylward at 11/11/2007 7:58 PM
# re: This is Why You Should Use Tables for Forms Layout - Follow Up
Thanks responding Bruce - it certainly wasn't my intention to misrepresent our communications.

In answer to your final question, I am trying to fully satisfy three factors - high accessibility (because it's important), NZ Web Guideline compliance (because projects we are engaged in are measured against this) AND minimising the impact of the method of implementation (because we have to remain competitive).

I have always said it is entirely possible to use a CSS approach for even the most complex form. The emails you sent were valid approaches and would have worked. What I haven't been convinced of yet is that these approaches are simpler to implement, maintain and understand.

If I can find a way of implementing forms in a simpler way (and I believe properly constructed table based forms are) and still satisfy my three factors I'm a happy man.

As I stated in my original post the letter of the guidelines says, Do not use tables for layout unless the table makes sense when linearised. (Section 11.3). This is entirely possible with table based forms and my questions related to determining whether I was misinterpreting the guidelines.

Anyway - thanks for joining in on the debate Bruce.

Left by Tokes at 11/11/2007 9:19 PM

Jump Menu

So what are all these buttons for?

Personalize

Text Size

Layout

Navigation Position

Andrew Tokeley

Thoughts on the Software Development Industry

This is Why You Should Use Tables for Forms Layout - Follow Up

Your Comments.

Your Reply.

Preview Your Comment.

Popular Posts

Archives

Post Categories